God of wrath - reflections on a Dixon's musings

This is a thoughful meandering and thinking around some issues John raised over at woodiesworship.blogspot . its not fully formed and unedited, hopefully there should be a discussion coming out of it.

Matt

Reading John’s arguments again, I have a few comments to make which are not really directed at the arguments themselves, but more wider questions of exegesis and interpretation. I’m just going to let my mind run away with me on my lunch hour, so this is more ‘Matt’s thoughts’ than ‘Matt wants to sing this song!’ although where I end up might look that way! Firstly, a quick search for the word vengeance in the NIV shows a number of references (29 in fact), particularly Isaiah 34:8 and 35:4 So I think the question we should be asking ourselves is ‘What aspect of the character of God is trying to be put forward by the inclusion of these words in the Bible’. I appreciate that the word itself is a troubling one, one that causes tensions in the chest as we try and square it with the God of the love songs we so often bring to Him. However, it is there, frequently, in the Bible. Describing God is impossible, as we sing (!) . So we must be cautious with how we conceive of God as we try and make attempts to describe some part of him. I am a creature, and I have a character. As such I am made up of different characteristics and tendencies. God is not a creature, but Creator. Therefore we need to be careful not to apply ‘creature’ words to the creator. I might have been a kind man at some point but there is no guarantee I will as kind in 20 years time. God is not beset by such change – he remains the same, immutable, immortal, invisible. So it is more correct to describe God as having attributes rather than characteristics. Secondly when thinking about God we must remember that he never limits himself or any part of himself in acting in a particular way. So when we think of God as Loving and contrast that with his anger and wrath as a very clear opposite, we have already reduced Him down to creature terms. To be loving he doesn’t limit his anger. To act justly doesn’t diminish His love. Rather, as he is divine and we are not, when He acts He is ALWAYS acting fully in accordance with His divine nature. He is constant. He is always God, always will be God, not capricious and flighty but solid and dependable. So to judge is an expression of His mercy and love as much as his act of rescue in His only Son. Specifically, what He judges (in creature terms ‘takes vengeance upon’) in fact CONFIRMS his justice, mercy and love. God takes and will take righteous and perfect action against those who defile and deface the creation and creatures who bear His image. Because He loves them, and is summed up by love. 8 For the LORD has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion's cause I think reading Isaiah 35 is helpful – 4 say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you." I would like to use Romans 1 as a sidelight here. We see that when people know God yet do not honour or worship Him, they are deceived in their minds and dimmed in their thinking. The rest of the chapter shows how sin corrupts the entire human race absolutely. And that ‘the wages of sin is death’. What we know, and should treasure, is that God, while demonstrating His kindness in apparently delaying this final day of ‘vengeance’ so that as many as possible may find the defence of the gracious gift of the Messiah’s blood, will act finally to rid the world of sin, to purify it and judge its evil. The day of vengeance is one that confirms to us that God IS just, that he doesn’t stand idle, that he isn’t disinterested in rape, child abuse, murder, holocausts etc. He cares, and cares deeply about any act which damages and crushes any of those created in His image. These are the things he burns against. I think it is a tension we must hold – let’s just remind ourselves exactly what God will take vengeance on. It isn’t malevolent, sinister self seeking war mongering for power and fame, but the full expression of his love for his people and that fact that those who ignore Him and are in fact openly hostile to him will receive due penalty; when the end comes all that remains will be that which is in the Kingdom of God. That which isn’t will come to an end. He hasn’t hidden his law; he hasn’t hidden His words from us. We know what God requires (in the bigger picture here – not addressing specific individuals at this point). We need to remember these things to appreciate the depth of our fall, and the greatness of the rescue. We have been saved from something – the due penalty for sin is death; the GIFT of God is eternal life. If there isn’t judgement and vengeance and judgement, then there is nothing to show us what God wants and what God hates. We have been saved TO something as well – to eternal life, joy and peace with the creator we now can stand before through His son. It’s hard, but need to somehow hold both aspects of the cross in tension in our minds. I’m going to let Nahum have the last word – spot the tensions! The Lord 's Anger Against Nineveh 2 The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and maintains his wrath against his enemies. 3 The LORD is slow to anger and great in power; the LORD will not leave the guilty unpunished. His way is in the whirlwind and the storm, and clouds are the dust of his feet. 4 He rebukes the sea and dries it up; he makes all the rivers run dry. Bashan and Carmel wither and the blossoms of Lebanon fade. 5 The mountains quake before him and the hills melt away. The earth trembles at his presence, the world and all who live in it. 6 Who can withstand his indignation? Who can endure his fierce anger? His wrath is poured out like fire; the rocks are shattered before him. 7 The LORD is good, a refuge in times of trouble. He cares for those who trust in him, 8 but with an overwhelming flood he will make an end of Nineveh ; he will pursue his foes into darkness.